Why HARISH RAWAT
A former Union cabinet minister, who held the water resources portfolio in UPA-II, Harish Rawat took over as Uttarakhand CM in 2014. On March 18 this year, nine Congress MLAs rebelled against Rawat, reducing his Congress-led government to a minority. President’s Rule was imposed in the state on March 27, but the Centre’s decision was overturned by the state high court, bringing Rawat back to power. The fate of the indomitable Uttarakhand leader now lies with the Supreme Court, which will rule on the HC verdict quashing President’s rule on July 12.
Manoj CG: Recently, there was turmoil in your party that led to the imposition of President’s Rule, which was later set aside by courts. On hindsight, do you think the situation could have been handled better had you accommodated some of the rebels in your Cabinet? Maybe Vijay Bahugana (who led the rebellion) could have been given a Rajya Sabha ticket?
Vijay Bahuguna was a chief minister not too long ago. I think if the party has given a person something, that person should sacrifice something for the party too. Today I am chief minister, but that is not a permanent position. When I am not given any position in the party, I should function as a worker and encourage others to work for the party. So if you stand for certain principles, you can’t give them up because you haven’t had your way. Irrespective of what others say, I don’t think these people who rebelled against the party did so because they were taking a principled stand; they were doing it for personal gains. The kind of horsetrading that happened… it was very unfortunate. This is not good for the stability of the state, its politics and its parliamentary democracy.
Manoj CG: The complaint was also about your style of functioning. Some MLAs feel that Garhwal region is getting neglected and that only Kumaon gets all the share of power. How do you plan to rectify that?
Look, all of us share one identity, that is the Uttarakhandi identity. Kumaon, Garhwal, Hardwar and other areas… are part of that identity. The fact is, this small state of Uttarakhand was formed after a long wait. People should feel that this small state can give its people maximum satisfaction, a better way of life, that it can be a development model for others, contribute to the nation… We are working in that direction.
MANEESH CHHIBBER: The people who left and some of those who remain in the party say that when you became CM, you struck a deal with some of them about some ministerial posts, Rajya Sabha seats etc. They claim that you shifted the goalpost.
I have no information about any such ‘deal’. When the Congress takes a decision, it’s after consulting everybody and efforts are made to accommodate everyone. One ministerial berth was vacant. Before they decided to defect, I said I was willing to take one person in the cabinet on March 17… Even on March 18, the day they decided to join the BJP, Vijay Bahugunaji told me, ‘Bhai, let this House be over…session be over. We will settle all issues, including Rajya Sabha’. But as he himself knows well, in matters of the Rajya Sabha, it is the prerogative of the Congress president. And it was clear to me too. But despite that fact, we were ready to work together. But what happened in the next three hours is still a mystery. Kisne kisko shikaar kiya main nahin jaanta (Who trapped whom, I don’t know). But anyway… they went to the Governor’s House and sought the government’s dismissal… Then they came to Delhi on a chartered flight hired by, maybe, some BJP leader and stayed in some five-star hotel. So I don’t think what you said is true… if so, Bahugunaji would not have told me that we will meet in Delhi on March 21.
Sagnik Chowdhury: After you won the trust vote, your government withdrew permission for a CBI investigation into the sting operation against you. Nevertheless, you’ve been questioned twice by the CBI. Can you tell us something about the probe?
See, we want this matter to come forth. The notification (for a CBI probe) came on April 2, when there was President’s Rule in the state. President’s Rule means Centre rule. The Central government has taken a decision… and the CBI, a Central government body, is an arm of the Centre. I would also like to ask: was the sting in accordance with the principles laid down by the Supreme Court? Moreover, hypothetically, if I was indeed guilty of offering bribes, why did the CBI not figure out who the beneficiaries were? They didn’t because the BJP is the beneficiary. Isn’t it ironical that the CBI is probing a Congress CM and not taking note of the BJP being the beneficiary? Moreover, have they figured out the motive? I respect the CBI because it is a premier institution, but they should be more careful while conducting such probes.
Maneesh Chhibber: How did the sting come about?
You’re a journalist and you would understand that I need you and you need me as well. The people who approached me were from a TV channel in my state. How could I not have spoken to them? I was misquoted. How, it is still a mystery for me. The BJP has used the media to create a conspiracy against me so that the government can be toppled. Probably it was a plan to make India vipaksh mukt (devoid of opposition).
Manoj CG: Defections aren’t limited to Uttarakhand alone. After the 2014 Lok Sabha elections, at least
10 big leaders have left your party. Why is the high command so out of touch with what is happening on the ground?
Who is a leader—whether it is at the grassroots level or the national level? A leader should take charge in times of adversity. I believe that those who left us should have stood by the party in those tough times. I cannot comment on the reasons why they left but I can surely say that they are indeed weak.
Manoj CG: Isn’t it the responsibility of the leadership to find out their problems and make sure they stay?
All these leaders who quit were in positions of power because of the Congress. They should have helped the party at this crucial juncture.
Utkarsh Anand: The Centre’s petition against the high court verdict quashing President’s Rule is pending in the Supreme Court. What are your expectations from it?
I am the petitioner. So I can only hope that they take a just decision. I have full faith in the judiciary. I don’t really have anything against the judiciary — it is because of them that I am the chief minister now.
Manoj CG: As of today, 11 MLAs stand disqualified in your state. Do you prefer bypolls or would you rather go in for an early election?
The Election Commission will decide on it.
Manoj CG: But the Cabinet has to decide?
No, the Cabinet has no say. These seats have been declared vacant. But I believe the Election Commission is waiting for the Supreme Court’s nod.
MANOJ CG: So you don’t want to go in for a re-election?
Let’s wait for July 12, when the Supreme Court delivers its order. It is not appropriate for me to comment on the issue before that.
DEVYANI ONIAL: Given that the elections are coming soon (Assembly polls are in 2017), could you talk a bit about the voters and their demands?
People will vote on the basis of three things. They will see whether we can provide a government that can bring development in the state, whether my government will hear them out or not, and how the general governance is. Moreover, they are going to analyse the recent developments in the state.
SHAILAJA BAJPAI: What do you think about Rahul Gandhi taking charge of the party? Also, what do you think the Congress needs to do in Uttar Pradesh ahead of the 2017 elections?
In UP and Bihar, the social divide is such that the Congress will have to think hard to come up with a strategy to revive itself. The Congress needs a breakthrough. Once we cross the 50-seat mark, there is no way the party can be stopped from reaching new highs. As far as Rahul Gandhi is concerned, he is already leading the party. I am quite hopeful that under his leadership, the party will thrive by 2019, the time for the next Lok Sabha elections.
MANOJ CG: But there is no credible chief ministerial face from the Congress in UP.
It might be too early for me to comment, but I believe we will strengthen our position in UP this time around.
MANOJ CG: Do you believe the Congress should have an alliance in Uttar Pradesh?
It is for the party leadership to decide. As of now, I see no possibility of a big alliance. However, we may consider smaller groups.
P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: When the BJP government came to power at the Centre, they disbanded the Planning Commission. What changes have you noticed in the NITI Aayog that has replaced it?
We are still not clear about the fate and mandate of the Niti Aayog. The Planning Commission was a body with which states used to interact on different issues and on various levels. So we had a fair idea of what was happening. It was way better.
P VAIDYANATHAN IYER: But is your state getting more money or less?
Uttarakhand has got less and the special grants that we used to get have been stopped. However, that is not the case with other states. In fact, the 10% increase in cess has benefited a lot of states (The 14th Finance Commission had last year recommended a 10 percentage point increase in the states’ share in central taxes). But in the Economic Survey, they accepted and stated that ‘states such as Uttarakhand have been the losers’.
Anil Sasi: After the empowered committee meeting of state finance ministers held in Kolkata in June, it seems that all the states have agreed to go ahead with the Goods and Services Tax (GST) and have junked the Congress’s proposal to put in a constitutional amendment cap on the rate. How do you see that?
We should keep an open mind on GST. We have no major issue on GST with the Central government but we want clarity. And yes, Tamil Nadu is not the only state which has a problem with GST because we have not even been asked if we are okay with the way they want to implement GST. We also might have a plan for the future, right?
Ritika Chopra: Uttarakhand recently witnessed flash floods. After the floods of 2013, a lot of environmentalists had blamed the devastation on the rampant road and highway constructions, hydro power projects etc. What is
your government doing to address these concerns?
We want to adopt eco-friendly technologies. We now want minimum construction with maximum output. I would like to add that a lot of people are asking us not to do a lot of things. However, no one is coming forward to help us out. We have no resources to generate solar energy; water is our only resource. Give us an alternative, we are open to suggestions.
Maneesh Chhibber: During the recent political turmoil in the state, how many times did you meet Rahul Gandhi?
Thrice.
Maneesh Chhibber: Did he provide you with a solution of some kind?
Yes, of course. The party supported me and even gave me suggestions on how to deal with the situation.
Maneesh Chhibber: As a Congress chief minister, how are your relations with the Modi government?
I am the Congress CM of a small state. My fight is not with the Centre. In fact, I want the PM to help us and guide us. Of course, we belong to different parties but our larger interest should be welfare of the people.
P Vaidyanathan Iyer: In the last two years, do you think there has been any action on cooperative and competitive federalism as promised by the Central government?
It’s not as if the concept of federalism was not in vogue during the previous (UPA) government. Dr Manmohan Singh, during his time as PM, helped the states a lot. The new government has shown us a dream but is not paving the way for this dream to come true. We want the Centre to help the states.
Manoj CG: Recently, Amarinder Singh said it’s time for Sonia Gandhi to retire and that Rahul Gandhi should now become the Congress president. Do you agree with him?
Rahul Gandhi has been leading from the front for a long time. But the designations and roles, that is for the Congress president or him to decide. But one thing I know for sure is that he will be the prime ministerial candidate for the 2019 elections.
Manoj CG: Currently the perception about the Congress is that it is down and mostly out. Is the Congress doing something to revive itself and, if so, how are you taking the message to the people of the country?
This is a wrong perception. Maybe the Congress is down, but certainly not out. We are fighting in all the states, either against the regional forces or against the BJP. We have been through worse times, in 1977, 1986 and 1989, but we have emerged winners. This is because there is no other party in the country whose DNA matches the DNA of the country. Sometimes people opt for some other parties, but they soon fall back on the Congress. I’m quite sure that will be the case in 2019.
However, there is a rider. The mandate that Narendra Modi received was phenomenal. It was less of a victory for the BJP and its ideology and more of a victory for Modi and his promises. So people will closely watch how he delivers.
I’m not saying that I want him to fail, because his failure would be the country’s failure. I also agree that if people are happy with him, it will be a massive threat to the Congress. But come to think of it, achhe din are moving further and further away from us. (Modi) had promised to eliminate inflation, that too does not seem to be happening. Unemployment continues to be a problem despite the big promises they have made.
Manoj CG: Many in the Congress criticise Rahul Gandhi for the opaqueness in his style of functioning. Have you experienced any such opaqueness?
I’ve been in national-level politics for almost 50 years now. I’m the balika vadhu of the Congress. I’ve learnt my politics here. I have no experience of another party, but I would like to say that the way Rahul Gandhi tries to understand the leaders of the party and the country, few people do that. Find me one political leader who has tried to understand people across castes, creed and social strata the way he has done. Even in the 2009 elections, he played a huge role in the Congress’s win. But he was not the main face so he did not get any credit. Just because he is the face of the party now, he is being targeted.
Transcribed by Pallabi Munsi
