Team J-B and the economics of Kannada films
The humble origins of Sandalwood’s hottest producer-pair could make a movie by itself
An engineering dropout and a ‘tent cinema’ exhibitor are changing the dynamics of the Kannada film industry. TheJayanna-Bhogendra (Jayanna N, 45 and Bhogendra, 46) duo have been distributors of over 150 Kannada films. But it is their 12 films as producers, 11 of them made (or under prodution) in the last four years, that have taken the industry by storm. They now have the biggest blockbuster of all time in Sandalwood, Mr & Mrs Ramachari, under their belt. Incidentally, their big break as distributors came eight years ago with the previous biggest blockbuster: Mungaru Male. Countering allegations of monopoly, they reveal the secrets of their success.
Hardly anyone knows your background though you are the most happening producers in the industry.
Jayanna: I was an engineering student in RV Engineering College. It was 1994 when my dad suddenly died. It may sound cinematic, but on his deathbed, my dad handed me over to my uncle KV Keshava Murthy’s care. My uncle was a managing partner in Abhimaan theatre. I joined him as a booking clerk. I was too shy to ask him for Rs 2,500 that was required for the college fee. I had managed a merit seat, but gave up in the third year. I continued working in the theatre. I would issue balcony tickets. Tickets priced at Rs 4.95 would fetch me 5 paise commission. It would amount to a few thousand rupees at the end of the year. Abhimaan theatre was sold and I had to continue in films. Basha of Bahar Films and Ajai of Pal Enterprises are my godfathers. I opened a distribution office near Madappa Mess in a 10x10 ft office. I began distributing Hindi films on second runs and ‘after-city’ releases. Bhogendra: He (Jayanna) released the film Coolie and was known as Coolie Jayanna for sometime. J: I also released Khilona and 50 other Hindi films. These were re-issues and came cheap. Back then, Hindi films were released in a large number of theatres. B: I owned the Maruti tent cinema on Magadi Road. I used to screen Hindi films on morning shows. Jayanna was distributing Hindi films on second runs those days and I met him as a business acquaintance. There was too much competition in that and while discussing it, we decided to distribute Kannada films together. That is how we started. We started with the film Police Dog and distributed films like Marma, Devaru Varavanu Kotre, Devarane, Dhruva, Hrudayavanta etc. All of them failed to return our investment. J: Distribution of Hindi films for a second run could be purchased for Rs 25,000 to Rs 1 lakh. We opened our office on August 15 around the time Chandra Chakori released. This film, along with Dasa, became one of our first hits as distributors. Then we started to regularly distribute Darshan’s films. We would offer funds on the day of the film’s muharat and feed the blind. Darshan’s films were always a good bet. Ayya, Bhupati, Shastri, Suntaragali and the list went on. But it was never a rosy path. We made money in some and lost in some. Snehana Preetina and Parodi were losses.
But you are considered the kings of distribution!
J: We distributed Mungaru Male and Duniya within a few weeks of each other. Before that, we had distributed Jote Joteyali. All three were silver jubilee hits. Three more films including Pallakki and Gaja ran for 100 days. All these at around the same time. We went on to distribute 150 films. 75 per cent of them are hits. After we started regular production of films, we are choosy about which films we distribute. In 20 years of business, only the last 2-3 years have been good. It is only after Googly that we are seeing any real money. We have learnt our lessons. B: We lost almost all the money we had made in just two films: Arjun and Paramathma. Now we do every minute calculation. We know when to spend and when to tighten the purse strings. Till now, we have spent most of the money in paying interest on loans. Distribution is difficult. You can produce 10 films if you have the money, but it will be equal only to distributing just one film. You need to know all the exhibitors and be on good terms with hundreds of them at the same time.
You are accused of monopolising distribution.
J: Theatre owners give us preference only because we have never cheated them in 20 years. We never allowed them to make losses because of us. B: We have returned advances and NRA (non refundable advances) if the films did not do well many times. People who do not know the inside workings of distribution make allegations. It requires a minimum investment of Rs 15,000 to release a film in one theatre. The projection through satellite is Rs 10,500 per week. You need Rs 2,000 for the banner and Rs 2,500 for the posters. Some people sell the films to each theatre for Rs 40,000 or even Rs 25,000 just to increase the number of screens. It affects the film’s collections very much.
But you have released Ranavikrama in 200 theatres.
J: Yes. But in Bengaluru, it is just 20-22 screens. It is like any other film. The number of screens reached 200 because we have released the film in many B and C centres at the same time. But we have taken care that no theatres are close by and do not affect the collections of each other. Some people may release in more theatres in Bengaluru. But we do not. It cuts down on our share as rent outgo after the first week eats into the profit. There are 650-700 theatres in Karnataka. Kannada films are exhibited in around 350-400 of them.
Film producers are usually in the news about tax problems.
J: There being big money in films is a great myth. In all film industries including Sandalwood, the success rate of films is 10 per cent. Even films that recover investment are declared hits. Only 5 per cent of the films actually make a profit. The glamour makes people think otherwise. B: Now around 90 per cent of the transactions in distribution is through cheques. Very few small theatres transact in cash. So there is no way of cheating on tax. In reality, many producers have lost their homes making movies. Most have lost in films what they have earned in other businesses. It is always a balancing act. Many realtors who became producers are disillusioned now. The way film business works has also undergone a big change. The risk was less earlier when films would stay in theatres for a few weeks. Now it is ‘hit out or get out.’ Morning shows may be full, but by the matinee show, the film will be declared a flop. Social media is spreading news very fast.
What prompted you to produce films? Not many distributors do this.
J: We used to go along with Darshan’s film teams to foreign locations for song shooting. It was Darshan’s wife who asked why we did not produce a film with Darshan though we were close to him. It was during the shooting of Suntaragali. We decided to produce a film and thus Arjun was made. In the credit roll we mentioned ‘With the blessings of Vijayalakshmi Darshan.’
It is said your monopoly in distribution is helping the films your produce.
J: It is not a monopoly. There are dozens of players. You need years to understand how film business works. It took us 20 years of distribution before we could produce films. Production is not just about investing money. You have to know how to get your films to reach everyone. Over the years, we built personal contacts with hundreds of exhibitors and that is the reason production is relatively easier for us. Distributing a film takes is not just making calls a week before release. It requires groundwork of three months. It How many are willing to invest that time? B: Distributors prefer our films because they feel our films are good. And they have faith in us.
There is a constant grouse that other language films are eating into Kannada film market.
B: Hindi films had a large share of the screens a couple of decades ago. Then Tamil films penetrated everywhere. Now Hindi and Tamil films have made way for Telugu films which are dominating. But overall, Kannada films still maintain a substantial share of the Karnataka film market. J: Kannada films have a share of 60 per cent of the theatres as well as box office collections. Telugu films have 20 per cent and the rest is shared by Tamil, Hindi and English. Malayalam and others are minor. It is proved again and again that if the Kannada film is good, it can take on any film. When Ramachari was eleased, collections of PK dropped even in multiplexes. B: Non-Kannada films have a very short span at the box office. A week and rarely two. Even in Andhra border areas like Bidar and Raichur, Kannada films run longer. Non-Kannada films together have a bigger share than Kannada only in multiplexes. But big non-Kannada films release in hundreds of theatres, creating a scarcity of theatres for Kannada films. Though they stay only for a week, our films are affected.
You have released Ranavikrama in 30 screens outside Karnataka. It took a long time for Kannada films to look outside.
J: This should have been done by the producers association and the Karnataka Film Chamber of Commerce. The Malayalam film industry associations gave free run to their films outside their state for 10 years. Now Malayalam films are released in every major city of the country. If no one does it, we will do it for Kannada films. In 4-5 years, we will release Kannada films all over the world. We will not stop with Ranavikrama or only movies we produce. We will take all Kannada films made by all produers and all actors around the world. I had to invest Rs 5 lakh to release Ranavikrama in 30 screens outside. I will be happy if I get back only Rs 5 lakh. Five to ten years from now, it will become Rs 5 or Rs 10 crore. Whoever remains the big star then will collect the money. But now, everyone should work towards developing that market.
Kannada films seem to be far behind Tamil and Telugu films in budget.
J: Today, a star’s film in Kannada cannot be made for less than Rs 10 crore. It is in the range of Rs 15-20 crore. B: It does not matter if the film is made with Rs 1 crore or Rs 10 crore. J: The recent Telugu film S/o Satyamurthy is said to be made on a budget of Rs 60 crore. It has reportedly been sold for Rs 63 crore. After spending nearly two years with a big star, what is the point in making Rs 3 crore profit? It is not the budget that matters. When comparing losses, we are much better than Tamil and Telugu films. Every star’s film will fail and when it does, the losses are huge.
The dubbing scare emerges every few months.
J: I am personally against dubbing of films. Big non-Kannada films relese in 150-200 screens directly. Dubbing means they will release in 400 screens. What will happen to original Kannada films? I want to see Shah Rukh Khan speak in Hindi and Jackie Chan in his Chinese-accent English. If they speak in Kannada, I will not watch them. Dubbing will kill thousands of our workers. B: Dubbing will be shameful. We do not need it.
You made five films with Yash. Was it to promote him?
J: It is not just Yash. Actors and technicans in our production house are repeated. Talking about Yash, there is a record of 18 films produced by Dwarakish for Vishnuvardhan. We want to make at least as many films together. It is all about trust. Money spoils most relationships. We do not have that problem. We never talk money. As for repeating him, we are also making back-to-back films with Sharan now (Bullet Basya and Jai Maruti 800). We will make more films with Dhananjay. We distributed 20 films of Darshan in a row and four of Sudeep’s. Harikrishna has scored music for all our films except Googly. Ravi Verma has been the stunt director for 90 per cent of our films. Preetam Gubbi is our in-house director. Even if he makes five hits or five flops, we will make films together. We have been part of all his films either as distributors or producers.
What gives you the judgement about how good a film will turn out to be?
J: We make only commercial films, not class films. Only mass films have made stars out of actors and made money. Before we produce, we just know the simple storyline. It is because of the trust in our technicians and actors that we make movies. Three out of the five films with Yash were suggested by him. We did not know the story. Gajakesari was a hit, but the film did not give us complete satisfaction.
The closure of theatres on Kempe Gowda Road is a big worry.
J: The main theatre concept will go away. Already theatres outside this area are collecting more money for Kannada films. There are also more multiplexes now. Today (Saturday) the Gold Class in a multiplex in Delhi had a houseful show of Ranavikrama. Things evolve and Kannada films are looking at better times.
Not their real names
Jayanna was given the name of Dhananjaya at birth. But he is Jayanna in all official records. Bhogendra on the other hand got his name because of a mistake. He was given the name Bhagyavendra by his parents. But during school admission it was wrongly recorded as Bhogendra and he continued with that name.
12 PRODUCTIONS AND GROWING
Arjun : 2008 Johny Mera Naam : 2011 Paramathma : 2011 Jaanu : 2012 Drama : 2012 Googly : 2013 Dyavre : 2013 Gajakesari : 2014 Mr & Mrs Ramachari : 2014 Ranavikrama : 2015 Bullet Basya : 2015 Boxer : 2015
500 Calls Per Day
Film distribution means being in touch with hundreds of people on a regular basis. “I make and receive between 400 and 500 calls a day. I have no option but to respond to each call, else there will be no business. That is the reason every three or six months I go out for a few days without the phone,” says Jayanna.
An engineering dropout and a ‘tent cinema’ exhibitor are changing the dynamics of the Kannada film industry. The
Hardly anyone knows your background though you are the most happening producers in the industry.
Jayanna: I was an engineering student in RV Engineering College. It was 1994 when my dad suddenly died. It may sound cinematic, but on his deathbed, my dad handed me over to my uncle KV Keshava Murthy’s care. My uncle was a managing partner in Abhimaan theatre. I joined him as a booking clerk. I was too shy to ask him for Rs 2,500 that was required for the college fee. I had managed a merit seat, but gave up in the third year. I continued working in the theatre. I would issue balcony tickets. Tickets priced at Rs 4.95 would fetch me 5 paise commission. It would amount to a few thousand rupees at the end of the year. Abhimaan theatre was sold and I had to continue in films. Basha of Bahar Films and Ajai of Pal Enterprises are my godfathers. I opened a distribution office near Madappa Mess in a 10x10 ft office. I began distributing Hindi films on second runs and ‘after-city’ releases. Bhogendra: He (Jayanna) released the film Coolie and was known as Coolie Jayanna for sometime. J: I also released Khilona and 50 other Hindi films. These were re-issues and came cheap. Back then, Hindi films were released in a large number of theatres. B: I owned the Maruti tent cinema on Magadi Road. I used to screen Hindi films on morning shows. Jayanna was distributing Hindi films on second runs those days and I met him as a business acquaintance. There was too much competition in that and while discussing it, we decided to distribute Kannada films together. That is how we started. We started with the film Police Dog and distributed films like Marma, Devaru Varavanu Kotre, Devarane, Dhruva, Hrudayavanta etc. All of them failed to return our investment. J: Distribution of Hindi films for a second run could be purchased for Rs 25,000 to Rs 1 lakh. We opened our office on August 15 around the time Chandra Chakori released. This film, along with Dasa, became one of our first hits as distributors. Then we started to regularly distribute Darshan’s films. We would offer funds on the day of the film’s muharat and feed the blind. Darshan’s films were always a good bet. Ayya, Bhupati, Shastri, Suntaragali and the list went on. But it was never a rosy path. We made money in some and lost in some. Snehana Preetina and Parodi were losses.
But you are considered the kings of distribution!
J: We distributed Mungaru Male and Duniya within a few weeks of each other. Before that, we had distributed Jote Joteyali. All three were silver jubilee hits. Three more films including Pallakki and Gaja ran for 100 days. All these at around the same time. We went on to distribute 150 films. 75 per cent of them are hits. After we started regular production of films, we are choosy about which films we distribute. In 20 years of business, only the last 2-3 years have been good. It is only after Googly that we are seeing any real money. We have learnt our lessons. B: We lost almost all the money we had made in just two films: Arjun and Paramathma. Now we do every minute calculation. We know when to spend and when to tighten the purse strings. Till now, we have spent most of the money in paying interest on loans. Distribution is difficult. You can produce 10 films if you have the money, but it will be equal only to distributing just one film. You need to know all the exhibitors and be on good terms with hundreds of them at the same time.
You are accused of monopolising distribution.
J: Theatre owners give us preference only because we have never cheated them in 20 years. We never allowed them to make losses because of us. B: We have returned advances and NRA (non refundable advances) if the films did not do well many times. People who do not know the inside workings of distribution make allegations. It requires a minimum investment of Rs 15,000 to release a film in one theatre. The projection through satellite is Rs 10,500 per week. You need Rs 2,000 for the banner and Rs 2,500 for the posters. Some people sell the films to each theatre for Rs 40,000 or even Rs 25,000 just to increase the number of screens. It affects the film’s collections very much.
But you have released Ranavikrama in 200 theatres.
J: Yes. But in Bengaluru, it is just 20-22 screens. It is like any other film. The number of screens reached 200 because we have released the film in many B and C centres at the same time. But we have taken care that no theatres are close by and do not affect the collections of each other. Some people may release in more theatres in Bengaluru. But we do not. It cuts down on our share as rent outgo after the first week eats into the profit. There are 650-700 theatres in Karnataka. Kannada films are exhibited in around 350-400 of them.
Film producers are usually in the news about tax problems.
J: There being big money in films is a great myth. In all film industries including Sandalwood, the success rate of films is 10 per cent. Even films that recover investment are declared hits. Only 5 per cent of the films actually make a profit. The glamour makes people think otherwise. B: Now around 90 per cent of the transactions in distribution is through cheques. Very few small theatres transact in cash. So there is no way of cheating on tax. In reality, many producers have lost their homes making movies. Most have lost in films what they have earned in other businesses. It is always a balancing act. Many realtors who became producers are disillusioned now. The way film business works has also undergone a big change. The risk was less earlier when films would stay in theatres for a few weeks. Now it is ‘hit out or get out.’ Morning shows may be full, but by the matinee show, the film will be declared a flop. Social media is spreading news very fast.
What prompted you to produce films? Not many distributors do this.
J: We used to go along with Darshan’s film teams to foreign locations for song shooting. It was Darshan’s wife who asked why we did not produce a film with Darshan though we were close to him. It was during the shooting of Suntaragali. We decided to produce a film and thus Arjun was made. In the credit roll we mentioned ‘With the blessings of Vijayalakshmi Darshan.’
It is said your monopoly in distribution is helping the films your produce.
J: It is not a monopoly. There are dozens of players. You need years to understand how film business works. It took us 20 years of distribution before we could produce films. Production is not just about investing money. You have to know how to get your films to reach everyone. Over the years, we built personal contacts with hundreds of exhibitors and that is the reason production is relatively easier for us. Distributing a film takes is not just making calls a week before release. It requires groundwork of three months. It How many are willing to invest that time? B: Distributors prefer our films because they feel our films are good. And they have faith in us.
There is a constant grouse that other language films are eating into Kannada film market.
B: Hindi films had a large share of the screens a couple of decades ago. Then Tamil films penetrated everywhere. Now Hindi and Tamil films have made way for Telugu films which are dominating. But overall, Kannada films still maintain a substantial share of the Karnataka film market. J: Kannada films have a share of 60 per cent of the theatres as well as box office collections. Telugu films have 20 per cent and the rest is shared by Tamil, Hindi and English. Malayalam and others are minor. It is proved again and again that if the Kannada film is good, it can take on any film. When Ramachari was eleased, collections of PK dropped even in multiplexes. B: Non-Kannada films have a very short span at the box office. A week and rarely two. Even in Andhra border areas like Bidar and Raichur, Kannada films run longer. Non-Kannada films together have a bigger share than Kannada only in multiplexes. But big non-Kannada films release in hundreds of theatres, creating a scarcity of theatres for Kannada films. Though they stay only for a week, our films are affected.
You have released Ranavikrama in 30 screens outside Karnataka. It took a long time for Kannada films to look outside.
J: This should have been done by the producers association and the Karnataka Film Chamber of Commerce. The Malayalam film industry associations gave free run to their films outside their state for 10 years. Now Malayalam films are released in every major city of the country. If no one does it, we will do it for Kannada films. In 4-5 years, we will release Kannada films all over the world. We will not stop with Ranavikrama or only movies we produce. We will take all Kannada films made by all produers and all actors around the world. I had to invest Rs 5 lakh to release Ranavikrama in 30 screens outside. I will be happy if I get back only Rs 5 lakh. Five to ten years from now, it will become Rs 5 or Rs 10 crore. Whoever remains the big star then will collect the money. But now, everyone should work towards developing that market.
Kannada films seem to be far behind Tamil and Telugu films in budget.
J: Today, a star’s film in Kannada cannot be made for less than Rs 10 crore. It is in the range of Rs 15-20 crore. B: It does not matter if the film is made with Rs 1 crore or Rs 10 crore. J: The recent Telugu film S/o Satyamurthy is said to be made on a budget of Rs 60 crore. It has reportedly been sold for Rs 63 crore. After spending nearly two years with a big star, what is the point in making Rs 3 crore profit? It is not the budget that matters. When comparing losses, we are much better than Tamil and Telugu films. Every star’s film will fail and when it does, the losses are huge.
The dubbing scare emerges every few months.
J: I am personally against dubbing of films. Big non-Kannada films relese in 150-200 screens directly. Dubbing means they will release in 400 screens. What will happen to original Kannada films? I want to see Shah Rukh Khan speak in Hindi and Jackie Chan in his Chinese-accent English. If they speak in Kannada, I will not watch them. Dubbing will kill thousands of our workers. B: Dubbing will be shameful. We do not need it.
You made five films with Yash. Was it to promote him?
J: It is not just Yash. Actors and technicans in our production house are repeated. Talking about Yash, there is a record of 18 films produced by Dwarakish for Vishnuvardhan. We want to make at least as many films together. It is all about trust. Money spoils most relationships. We do not have that problem. We never talk money. As for repeating him, we are also making back-to-back films with Sharan now (Bullet Basya and Jai Maruti 800). We will make more films with Dhananjay. We distributed 20 films of Darshan in a row and four of Sudeep’s. Harikrishna has scored music for all our films except Googly. Ravi Verma has been the stunt director for 90 per cent of our films. Preetam Gubbi is our in-house director. Even if he makes five hits or five flops, we will make films together. We have been part of all his films either as distributors or producers.
What gives you the judgement about how good a film will turn out to be?
J: We make only commercial films, not class films. Only mass films have made stars out of actors and made money. Before we produce, we just know the simple storyline. It is because of the trust in our technicians and actors that we make movies. Three out of the five films with Yash were suggested by him. We did not know the story. Gajakesari was a hit, but the film did not give us complete satisfaction.
The closure of theatres on Kempe Gowda Road is a big worry.
J: The main theatre concept will go away. Already theatres outside this area are collecting more money for Kannada films. There are also more multiplexes now. Today (Saturday) the Gold Class in a multiplex in Delhi had a houseful show of Ranavikrama. Things evolve and Kannada films are looking at better times.
Not their real names
Jayanna was given the name of Dhananjaya at birth. But he is Jayanna in all official records. Bhogendra on the other hand got his name because of a mistake. He was given the name Bhagyavendra by his parents. But during school admission it was wrongly recorded as Bhogendra and he continued with that name.
12 PRODUCTIONS AND GROWING
Arjun : 2008 Johny Mera Naam : 2011 Paramathma : 2011 Jaanu : 2012 Drama : 2012 Googly : 2013 Dyavre : 2013 Gajakesari : 2014 Mr & Mrs Ramachari : 2014 Ranavikrama : 2015 Bullet Basya : 2015 Boxer : 2015
500 Calls Per Day
Film distribution means being in touch with hundreds of people on a regular basis. “I make and receive between 400 and 500 calls a day. I have no option but to respond to each call, else there will be no business. That is the reason every three or six months I go out for a few days without the phone,” says Jayanna.
