Sujatha Singh: PM was always polite to me

To a question, Singh claimed someone within the government was planting stories against her in the media and maintained that she does not believe in leaking privileged information to journalists.

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Sujatha Singh

Sujatha SIngh
Karan Thapar: Mrs Singh let's start with government's decision to curtail your tenure as foreign secretary, to use government's language. How and when was this news communicated to you?

Sujatha Singh: I got a call from the External Affairs Minister's office that she (Sushma Swaraj) wanted to see me at 2 PM on January 28. I had a feeling that I knew what was it about. Because normally she is very clear as to what she wants to say. So, I went across and I started to talk about the next days day's briefing about the parliamentary select committee and she basically looked at me and said that I don't have some pleasant news to convey to you and this is that the Prime Minister wants S Jaishankar as his Foreign Secretary. I said, "Okay, what would you like me to do. Should I give in my papers?" And then we talked some more and she was very gracious and after that I went and informed my family and went to office, cleared my desk and gave in my letter.

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Thapar: Before Mrs Swaraj spoke to you on January 28, was there any earlier occasion that you were given the indication the Prime Minister wanted to replace you and wanted a new person as a Foreign Secretary?

Singh: You know, there been rumours swelling about for months and for the matter of fact I knew that desks was being laid, even before the government was sworn-in, that I will one of the first secretaries to go. And you learn to ignore all the static and to focus on your work.

Thapar: But at no time did the government either issue a directive or say that they want to replace you?

Singh: No

Thapar:
Was it some where in December perhaps that some one senior retired civil servant met you on the behalf of the Prime Minister.

Singh: Well, it was never projected to me that the meeting was on the behalf of the Prime Minister. What happened was that I was kept out of one such meeting. I remember being angry, rather upset, where a foreign secretary should be involved such meetings. And I discussed it with some of my fellow colleagues, who said that this is not the first time that the foreign secretary was kept out because the PMO tend to be little arbitrary, I shall say. Not this PMO only, but PMOs in the past as well.

Thapar: And was this the point where someone got in touch and said..

Singh: The next day, I was called in for a cup of coffee and it was a very matter-fact-conversation as to 'what happened'. I said, "I don't know, you tell me and would you think off...since the Prime Minister does not seem to be comfortable with you. I said, "I didn't know about that, am just doing my job."

Thapar: So this person said would you think of leaving the job, because Prime Minister is not comfortable with you?

Singh: Would you think of another job. I said am not interested.

Thapar: Did he specify what sought of job was it?

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Singh: No

Singh: It was just to say a 3-5 years, a constitutional position and I did not ask of any further detail because I was not interested.

Thapar: Can I ask who this person was?

Singh: You know there are certain things that I keep to confidence and I would not like to say.

Thapar: Was this person in authority to make this suggestion or was it a personal

Singh: In high sight I guess, but he projected it was his personal what has happened the earlier day.

Thapar: And was it a personnel from the PMO.

Singh: Karan I am not answering your question

Thapar: All right. And this was in mid-December.

Thapar: Was there any other instances that showed that the Prime Minister wanted you to go?

Singh: No. He was always courteous. Always polite and as there was such an intense foreign policy in the office, I interacted with him very frequently.

Thapar: Did he make any click, in any way that he had a problem?

Singh: No

Thapar: Was he the most accessible Prime Minister for a FS?

Singh: Look every Prime Minister has his style. And this Prime Minister's style and as note was to interact at a very regular interval with the Ministry of Foreign Ministry. Sometimes it would be as much as thrice a day. His foreign engagements were so intense.

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Thapar: He had several media interactions and would have pointed out, which he never did.

Singh: Its up to him, surely.

Thapar: So, can we just sum it up that on January 28, Sushma Swaraj comes up to you and says PM wants to replace you and prior to this, sometime in December I believe, informally it was suggested to look for another job. But other than this two occasions, you had no hint, no sign from the Prime Minister, he was not happy.

Singh:
No. And when that other job was suggested, I said, "The day you want me to go, you tell me, I will give in my paper."

Thapar: And You said this to the person.

Singh: Yes

Thapar: So, when you were asked by Mrs Swaraj to go and to go immediately, that took you by surprise. Or you had anticipated that from your earlier conversations

Singh: It did not take me much of time Karan as it was such an unsettled atmosphere for the past few months. And lot of secretaries, not just me....You remember that big reshuffle that took place. I remember having a conversation with a fellow secretary and I said, "You think, that's it or a first of many?" and he laughed said, "First of many."

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Thapar: So, the mood of many secretaries were of apprehension?

Singh: Perhaps and for me...Look in my mind I had come to terms with many facts. I told you...Even before the government had taken office there were bets that I wouldn't last a week.

Thapar: Then let's say that transfers, appointments of ambassadors, that you wanted to put through were held-up. Was that an indication to you that the Prime Minister was not happy with the suggestion you made.

Singh: I am not going to go into that. It's a process that needs to retain its integrity and I would not like to talk about it.

Thapar: Was the Foreign Minister supportive of you?

Singh: I have a good relations with the External Affairs Minister. She was my minister. I was loyal to her. And we understood each other very well.

Thapar: Lets come to some of the reasons published by the Times of India on Friday why you were curtailed.

Singh: You know Karan, this is kind of journalism which gives journalism a bad name. It is completely uninformed and completely lacking in a basic understanding of how the Ministry of External Affairs functions.

Thapar: So you are saying that this was completely untrue.

Singh: Absolutely. I don't know that whether Mr Modi was annoyed or not and as FS I take full responsibility for whatever happened during my watch. But in the manner such paragraphs are drafted in the multilateral texts on the line of what has been drafted earlier and given the fact that they have been no change in policy may it be Palestine or Israel. That paragraph was drafted precisely in a manner that it should not have been.

Thapar: The second reason given by the Times of India was that you did not follow-up on Modi's visit to Japan in September.

Singh: That again completely uninformed and planting stories. What were the outcomes of visit to Japan? 3.5 trillion yen in investments. What is it that I should have followed-up on? Was it for the Ministry of commerce, Department of Industrial promotion, Department of economic Affairs. The civil nuclear deal. Come on.

Thapar: Its completely untrue.

Singh: Its completely nonsense.

Thapar: Who is leaking all this stories then?

Singh: First of all I do not leak myself. And second, I do not believe in leaking privileged information to journalists. And most importantly, I do not believe in disseminating and spreading untruth.

Thapar: Was the core problem with you was your negativity.

Singh: About what? You had eight months of the most successful foreign policies that any new government has implemented. On Tuesday, before the government was sworn-in, I got a call from Arun Jaitley telling me what I thought of the ideas of the SAARC leaders to be invited, it didn't take me half a second to respond and say 'great idea, we will go for it' and they landed on Sunday. I had three days. I doubt that many FS would have done it.

Thapar: So, it was Arun Jaitley's proof of the speed of implementation of the idea that he had given you?

Singh: No, it PM is the proof. I and briefed him twice before the leaders came, the third time the night, they were sworn-in. They came. After that the visit to Bhutan, my idea. I said you must have a bilateral visit to the neighbourhood before the multilateral BRICS summit. On the BRICS summit, it was not just one secretary but three secretaries who went, I went because it would have been the first meeting with President Putin. The visit to Japan, I put it forward, the visit to US. I cant think of one idea that I can think where I have fell short-off.

Thapar: So, you were swift and bringing good ideas and doing things that he wanted you to do.

Singh: Absolutely, no hesitation in saying it.

Thapar: Something else has been said in the papers that in 2013 when you became the FS, Dr Manmohan Singh first choice was Jayshanker. It was Sonia Gandhi who made him change his mind and made you the FS instead because of your family links with the Gandhis'.

Singh: Tell me Karan...For a Prime Minister who is so famously recusant, isn't odd how the entire media seems to be under this impression that a certain civil servant was his favoured candidate and who seem to have bought it hook line and sinker.

Thapar: Once again someone has leaked this to create that impression?

Singh: Well. Perhaps, I must tell you that the day of the swearing-in, when I took leave of Dr Manmohan Singh, because I couldn't be present when President Karzai had called on him. I told him that this remarkable thing that is happening today of seven SAARC heads of government barring Bangladesh because Sheikh Hasina was going to Japan; I said that it rests on the foundation that you built, in terms of what we did with our neighbours and it couldn't have happened without the quiet solid diplomacy and he said you have justified my faith in you.

Thapar: In other words, you were his first choice. And the stories that Jayshanker was not his preferred candidate is not true.

Singh: I do not wish to speculate about decisions that were made when I was not here in Delhi and even if I were here in Delhi, I would not have known of the factors that went into making them.

Thapar: You think your relations with Mr Modi suffered because he saw you as a Gandhi loyalist?

Singh: I have no way of reading Mr Modi's mind. I can just tell you that I enjoyed the best of relations with him and when he came in, I admired him for his decisiveness, for his in sightedness, for questioned that he asked. He asked very good questions, getting to the heart of the matter. He was very quick learner and for the manner in which he went about his work, I like it. I liked his style. I tend to get along with most people Karan. And I look for the good in them. I look for what is positive in them and if there are any negative elements in any boss that I have served in any ministry that I have worked with, I say it's part of the course.

Thapar: Modi got along with you and you got along with him?

Singh: I did.

Thapar: Now, when you did submit your papers on January 28. It was not a resignation it was a letter asking for voluntary retirement. How did you phrase that letter.

Singh: As instructed by the Prime Minister....

Thapar: And how did the PMO respond to that?

Singh: I got a call from the Prime Minister's Office "asking me if I would consider deleting it (the words)"

Thapar: What did you say?

Singh: I would not

Thapar: Because the truth is that is the only possible reason you were seeking voluntary retirement

Singh: It was on the instructions of the Prime Minister and as a good civil servant, we follow instructions.

Thapar: So, when the PMO asked you to delete those lines, they were clearly saying, we don't want history to record that we asked you to resign.

Singh: Karan, I frankly don't know and I don't care. I did what I had to do and it's done, it's over with. Its behind me now

Thapar: You said in an earlier interview that you were looking for an honourable exit? What did that mean

Singh: In my mind, the definition of honourable exit was to let me go with my honour intact and my record unblemished

Thapar: So it wasn't that you wanted another job of dignity and stature, what you wanted was to not leak maliciously, do not malign do not try to destroy my reputation.

Singh: I think what is very irritating is this continuous reference to my father, whom I love and respect enormously. He is the reason why I sat for the civil service examination and sat for the foreign service. He comes from a very underprivileged background. His father was a weaver. He actually used to weave and take his woven cloth to the market.

Thapar : Do you have a feeling that they are targeting your father through you?

Singh: I don't think so. My father is 87 now. He has been director of Intelligence Bureau, he has been a very upright governor of Uttar Pradesh. He didn't show any favourites. He is a great person. He is the reason that I am what I am today because he never expected less of me that he would have of a son.

Thapar: Mrs. Singh I want to talk a little a bit you. The last 3 days must have been traumatic. What toll has it taken on you?

Singh: I am yet to find out. I am coming to terms with it. The foreign service has been what I have built my entire life around. My father was the person who has indoctrinated me almost from the time I was 7 or 8. I am child of the service. I got 10 days short of becoming 22. I have married a fellow batch mate. I don't like talking about myself, but I will today when I am on my way out of public life. I was the first woman to top the Indian Police Service because my father was an Indian Police Service officer and I wanted to pay him the tribute, with no intention of entering. There are many things I am proud of and over the last few months in the ministry of external affairs to give administration a humane face, to give it a face that had time for people, to introduce transparency to the system to talk to every officer who wanted to talk to the Foreign Secretary and to give them time.

Thapar: Clearly, Foreign service was in your blood. It's been your life, today do you feel offended?

Singh: No, not at the slightest. I think all men and women who form a part of Foreign service and who have been sending me messages of support and thanks.

Thapar: You had a lot of support from your colleagues. Quietly perhaps but a lot of it. Let me ask you this, what impact does this entire episode have?

Singh: I have not been to the ministry since the past 3 days and I would rather not think about something that I had worked so hard to build. You know the head of missions conference is going to take place on the 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and we were going to put up a memorial plant to our officers, our diplomats and others who were killed in the line of duty in Kabul and in Birmingham. I would have liked to be there and meet my ambassadors and high commissioners. I don't know. I think they will come to terms with that as they must. I hope they take away a lesson of how to conduct themselves with grace, dignity and honour in a service which is much maligned and taken as a punching bag by the media for no good reason whatsoever.

Thapar: I want to end by coming back to you, How deep is the pain in the heart?

Singh: You can't be serious Karan. It's over, it's done with, it's finished. I'm off to my next chapter. I am going to get my hands dirty, I love gardening. I am going to weave like my grandfather used to.

Thapar: The past is over. You have turned a chapter. The Future is what you are looking at

Singh: It's over. The future is what lies ahead.

Thapar: It was pleasure talking to you

Singh: Pleasure.