Exclusive interview with Mamata Banerjee: Modi is media, media Modi
West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee on Tuesday said that she was not averse to sharing the stage with the Left to combat communal forces. She spoke exclusively to Headlines Today's Consulting Editor Rajdeep Sardesai. WATCH VIDEO
West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee on Tuesday said that she was not averse to sharing the stage with the Left to combat communal forces. She spoke exclusively to Headlines Today's Consulting Editor Rajdeep Sardesai.Watch video
Here's the full interview.
Q. Mamatadi, all your life you have fought the Left, and yet in an interview in August you seem to indicate that if for national interest we need to come together, we will come together. Am I to understand that you believe now that it is in the national interest for Mamata, the Left, Congress. I come back to where I started, for all of you to come together, the janta parivar, simply because Narendra Modi is posing this big challenge to all of you, which is how your politics is slowly changing now.
A. My problem is, I do not give interview to the press now a days because what you are glorifying every word, to a particular person, you can do it.
Q. Are you saying that the media is glorifying Narendra Modi?
A. Of course, 100 percent. Media is totally Modi, Modi-media.
Q. Media has become Modi-fied?
A. Yes, totally. Ok, you give support.
Q. But the people are voting for him?
A. 29 per cent of course, obviously.
Q. 31 percent?
A. 31 percent, whose responsiblity? Modi is a lucky man that he has got the opportunity, but who is responsible for it this is Congress party and other regional parties.
Q. So you are saying if the point that Congress party and regional parties come together in 2014 General election you feel they could have given Modi a stronger fight?
A. Yes, now also
Q. And now also to if they have to survive they have to come together, so Nitish and Lalu have to come together, Mayawati and Mulayam have to come together, Mamata and Left also?
A. No ..No. Nitish and Lalu, we have seen their results. If they were together in the alliance BJP would have lost the election. If Mayawati ji and Mulayam Singh is together in UP , BJP will lose the election . Maharashtra you have seen, they were not together , because of Sharad Pawar, Shiv Sena has done good things.
Q. What about Left and Mamata?
A. On Left - in Bengal , they are finished now.
Q. But are you therefore ready to reach out to them?
A. No,-no no , they have some ideology, I have some ideology. Our ideological fight will continue, but what I want to say for the better interest of this country to combat the communal vandalism and to fight against the arms vendetta, let us do a platform from where we can just we can raise the voice of the people. Now a days, if you raise the voice, they will be just killing you like this, political killings, so it is basically.
Q. So, I can actually see a possibility of you sharing a platform with a Sitaram Yechury and Prakash Karat? As a platform, you are ready to share with them??
A. That is a common minimum agenda. It is just like a platform to fight against communalism - the secularism.
Q. That is a big change that is taking place then..
A. No no no in secularism..dekho no no no. Internationally you have to remember..I attended this seminar. I went to Vietnam along with them because this was a country representation at international level.
Q. But politically are you ready?
A. Politically. They gave support fully to UPA, sometime they gave full support to NDA. I was with NDA but that time Jaswant Singh was the finance minister. One day he told me "Mamataji, hamne State Government ko Left Front ko poora rupya de diya. Then suddenly usko pata hua ki Mamata toh uska khilap mein hai. Toh humko bolta hai..nahi nahi nahi kiya bol diya. Main ne bola theek hai kyon aapko aisa bolta hai. Toh everybody is not that."
Q. Everybody can come together at times. You have done with NDA in the past, you have been UPA..
A. But I was not with BJP propaganda. I was not with BJP's communalism agenda.
Q. So you will never be with Narendra Modi?
A. No.
Q. No question at all?
A. No. I was with BJP...Atal Behari Vajpayee ji when he was the Prime Minister because of his credentials. That time we thought that yes he can lead the country. And this time it is not Narendra Modi. It is their party, they have got the majority. In democracy this is the system. What can I do?
Q. Therefore, let me ask you in conclusion. Do you accept the view that most people believe that Narendra Modi is here for 10 years that Rahul Gandhi needs to change, needs to really wake up and the Congress Party needs to wake up if it is to fight Narendra Modi. Do you concede that. You said in this programme that if Congress did more, do you believe that Congress party needs to wake up or is it finished??
A. Finished hai..I cannot say.
Q. You have come to Delhi and participated in Nehru's centenary celebration where you shared the stage with Sonia Gandhi and with the Left. Am I to understand that this is the beginning of a new political alliance? Mamata is now ready to reach out to Congress and to the Left?
A. No, I was not sitting on the stage. But down, you can say in the audience.
Q. But you have Prakash Karat, Sitaram Yechury, with Rahul Gandhi?
A. No, no, I have not distributed the seat or I have not given the number of the seat, who will sit where. It is the Congress Party, they invited us. They have decided who will sit where. That is their gesture. I think the program is Pandit Nehru's birthday. Panditji was the first prime minister of India and architect of modern India and especially unity in diversity was his original thinking and that's why to fight the battle against the communalism it is a good platform.
Q. It's not a new political alliance. You are saying it's a platform to fight communalism. Let me ask you then, you are saying the Left, Trinamool Congress, Congress, Janta Parivar will all come together to fight the BJP?
A. I can't say because I just came to attend this meeting and was just an invitee. If everybody is together to fight the battle against communal forces, I will be happy and I don't want any blessings for that and I don't want any advantage for that also. Let them do the things. I think that communalism is the cancer of our society and if we have to protect the humanity and the unity and integrity of this country than we will have to fight the communal forces.
Q. Let me get it clear. You are saying you will be happy if all these forces come together. The Janta Parivar has already indicated that they will come together under Mulayam Singh Yadav's leadership, Nitish Kumar, Lalu, Devegowda and others. You are now also saying that you are ready to come together on one platform that means a common strategy may be in Parliament. You are ready for that?
A. I am ready for that but let the other people also decide, floor management system and floor coordination. If that is done than we can raise the important public views also for that. Because what I am feeling today is that very bad tendency is going on when you cannot combat the situation politically or you cannot do the development things than only alternative to divide the country like this and I don't support this. And I feel in Delhi also you have seen the riots, Uttar Pradesh also, Bihar also Gujarat also, throughout the country this communalism is increasing. Isi liye main soch rahi hoon ki sab mil kar kaam karen to accha hai. (That's why I am thinking that it will be good if everyone works together).
Q. Jab sab ek saath kaam karenge to iska matlab hai ki aapko Narendra Modi ka virodh karna hai. Narendra Modi jaise jaise bade hote jaa rahe hain, aaplog sab dar gaye hain aur aaplog ek saath aana chahte hain?
A. Ye baat theek nahi hai. Kaun bada, kaun chhota ye to desh ki janta tai karegi. Agar pehle se ye sab ek hota na...Congress ki galti se hi to chunav ka yeh nateeja nikla. Aur doosri baat yeh hai ki agar sab log chunav se pehle ek saath me, ek common minimum program agenda karte to 29 per cent me kisi ko desh ka power nahi milta.
Q. You spoke of federal front before election?
A. Yes, I am now also interested.
Q. And now you are including Congress and Left also as part of it? With Left you have such a?
A. No, my ideological fight will continue.
Q. With the Left?
A. Yes, they have their own ideological policy; I have my own ideological policy. That's a different question.
Q. At national level?
A. At national level, it is a platform to fight the battle against communalism and the vandalism.
Q. That means you are saying Narendra Modi is your enemy number one?
A. I am not saying any man or individual. I have respect for everybody. But what I want to say that communalism is the cancer of our society. And in the name of communalism arms training camp is going on. In the name of communalism, crores of money is being spent. In the name of communalism, do you think we are fool? From where this money is coming?
Q. But BJP is saying in the name of minority appeasement Mamata Banerjee is only catering to ?
A. See, my problem is when I am born in this country and on that day I am born I say yes I am committed to this country. If I continue to a chair the question of majority or minority does not arise. The question is I have to work for all. And we are for all, it may be Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and all.
Q. Your are saying this today..
A. No, no, no, I am not saying this today.
Q. Please tell me Mamataji, the BJP is slowly growing in Bengal and the reason they say that Mamata Banerjee party is going to the extreme end to protect extremist fundamentalist Muslim forces?
A. Do you think so?
Q. This is what Amit Shah has gone to Bengal and said?
A. Who is this man? I don't know him? Haven't seen him?
Q. He has gone to Bengal and said this.
A. Politically, he can make these statements. But I don't care for that. I don't know these people. I know Advaniji, I know Vajpayeeji, I know Rajnathji, I know Arun Jaitley, I know Sushmaji. I know so many BJP leaders, Congress party leaders and other party leaders also. I don't know all leaders of the BJP. It is not my duty also. But only one thing I can tell you. In Bengal they will never never , even this time you have seen they have tried more and more. They spend a lot of money. Even all the media have been purchased by them. I am sorry to say. It is a battle of sorrow. But instead of that I have got out of 42 we have got 34 seats. What they will give me the result...What they will do
Q. They are saying that their vote percent is now growing to 17 per cent, they are targeting 2016 elections in Bengal and they are saying Burdwan is a good example of kind of politics that the Trinamool Congress is playing. The homes that were raided where allegedly the bombs were found?.
A. You will ask me the questions about today's meeting. No Trinamool Congress, it is absolutely wrong.
Q. Is it propaganda?
A. BJP's propaganda, RSS' propaganda. It is their propaganda. It is not at all..and our state government arrested the persons and that house was hired in the month of July not before Modi comes to power but after Modi comes to power.
Q. So Trinamool has no connection with these
A. No, why why why?..Trinamool Congress never do this. It is the BJP Party. They divide the country. You see, I have a great respect for dharm gurus but I don't respect danga gurus. And I will not take any lessons from them. Who is patriot and who is not patriot..because we are born and bought up in a state where we give the reforms. We give the social justice, we give the movement.
Q. The reason why Narendra Modi government has made that an issue because they said even when it comes to law and order, the NIA has to go there eventually. The NSA has to go to Burdwan because they felt the West Bengal government was not willing initially..
A. Is it so? If they can say openly, yes they are not able. I can tell you I can expose them like anything. Who said? NIA, NSA said Bengal government is doing all the good things. Who arrested these persons? You have announced only the money. Who arrested these main culprits?
Q. Has infiltration grown?
A. No tell me whose duty is this? When BJP Party when they contested election, they raised the infiltration issue. They have forgotten once India was united. India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Whenever people came from Bangladesh, they are infiltrators, they are not. Up to Indira Gandhi- Sheikh Mujibur Rahman pact, Liyaqat-Nehru pact..they are very much Indian citizens. They have come from Bangladesh within the stipulated time but what they are saying infiltration is whose responsibility? There are so many areas, borders; they are not within state government's jurisdiction.
Q. They say political violence has increased..
A. No, no no?not at all. It has decreased 99 per cent. Bengal is doing very good thing. They are giving some money to media and media is creating this confusion. I am sorry to say and I thing I can tell you, this infiltration..when they are raising the issue they must face the music. Infiltration is not the state government issue. The border area depends on central government. Where is your R&AW, where is your IB? Where is you SIB? Where is your CRPF, BSF, SSB? Where? It is not state government's duty. 15 km within the border area is in the hands of BSF.
Q. Now let me ask this, you are coming close to the Congress, you are sharing a platform at a time when you are under political pressure for the first time?
A. No no no, it is not political.
Q. For the first time in your career you have been accused by your political rivals of aiding corruption in the Saradha scam?
A. Please. I will not give you the interview if you ask me all this questions. No you cannot accuse like this. First you have to prove. You have to give the evidence. It was never done in our time. It was the Left Front's time and Congress' time and BJP's time.
Q. Saradha has nothing to do with you? Kunal Ghosh your suspended MP says Mamata was close to Saradha Group?
A. Who said? You have to prove it otherwise I will resign from my side.
Q. You will resign?
A. Yes. That is absolutely wrong I am telling you. It is CPM's time, Left Front's time..34 years not our times. We arrested the man. We set up the judicial commission. We return the money Rs 5 lakh to individuals. This is absolutely wrong.
Q. You forgot the fact that your painting was sold for Rs 1.8 crore. (Mamata throws the mike)
Q. Didi, tell me how do you see the Narendra Modi government? It's now been in power for almost six months. How do you see from a point of view of a chief minister, an opposition chief minister, how do you see the Modi government today? Do you believe that 'achhe din aa rahe hain'? Do you accept that?
A. Na....achha din to....kahan se aa raha hai....wo videsh se aa raha hai lagta hai....desh mein to nahi hai....
Q. When you say 'videsh se aa raha hai', what are you saying? The foreign investors, the foreigners...(voice not clear)
A. No, no....dekho, I am not against the foreign investment....lekin hum ye chahte hain ki hamara jo domestic industrialist hai usse jyada information...foreign ke saath milke wo kaam karenge, jayenge (voice not clear).....hamara koi aitraaz nahi hai....hum support karte hain investment ke liye....wo baat nahi hai....ek to foreign investment is different....dekho, hamara political policy hai, hum FDI retail market ko support nahi karte hain....hum....insurance jo aap pura bech de rahe hain, rail ko pura aap bech de rahe hain....usko hum support nahi karte hain
Q. You have been a former railway minister. Government is saying FDI in railway, 100 percent they are willing to give in certain sectors - they are trying to reform the railways. Are you against the reform?
A. Do you think it is a reform? If it is a reform, then he should have done it in the country, why outside?
Q. To bring more investments in key areas of the railways.
A. Ok, lekin aapke paas paisa nahi hai to kya aap ghar ka ladki ko bech dega -
Q. Agar aapki jo facilities hain - if your railways are in decline, what is wrong if govt brings in better quality?
A. Dekho, railwayko - railway we say - railway is the lifeline of the nation - if the lifeline is derailed - itna din chala kaise - itne din bhi railway chala kaise - crores of people travel by railway
Q. Quality is going down.
A. Quality is going down because it is a lack of efficiency
Q. It's not because several railways ministers including yourself in the past have been accused (voice not clear) - like Lalu Prasad, others.
A. No, we have done a lot - don't compare me with others - ek, ek aadmi ka ek, ek kaam karne ka tareeka hota hai - i have a respect for all - lekin, this is not correct - that, our time railway was the best time telling you - without taking any advantage from outside even - and now, in the name of quality, if you sell total railway department, I don't know what will be - ok, you have no money na, you need more money, sell the country, that's an easy option
Q. You are making an interesting point because Abhishek Banarjee, the TMC Youth Congress chief, who is your nephew, has said, Narendra Modi used to sell tea before becoming the prime minister - he is now selling the country away - I challenge him to take police action against me for such statements - I know I am saying the truth - do you think this is a kind of statements (voice not clear)
A. Let me tell you first thing - Abhishek Banerjee may be - don't tell me he is my nephew - he is my party worker
Q. But he is your nephew?
A. So what? He is a party worker - I don't consider he is my family member.
Q. Not your family member?
A. No, no - yes, my family - he is in politics from childhood - it is not that....
Q. You are not promoting him?
A. No - it is - they are doing their own business - they are the party fellow you can say
Q. He heads the Youth Wing
A. That's ok - that party has decided - don't talk about family and all this - I believe human family is my family - and if anybody is interested in politics, anybody can come - if new generation - if they don't come - who will run the country next in the future - so, I.....
Q. Opponents are criticising that you are promoting family....
A. No, I am not -
Q. They never used to say this about you
A. I am not
Q. You are still the same?
A. I am still the same - if they have the quality, they will come - if they want to do something in the interest of the country, let them do - they have to work hard for this - they have to struggle - so, I struggle my full of life for this - so, don't say that - you can tell me - as your worker said - or tell me as what your MP said - but, yes, they can see - they are the young generation - (voice not clear) they are young and - this is the actual word they have said
Q. No, but what you are saying -what he has said.....and what you also said.
A. No, that may be their intention
Q. No, I don't know what they said.
Q. Are you saying the prime minister of the country is selling the country?
A. I am not saying anything about my prime minister - I am telling you what is my feeling you asked me to tell the - all the ...railways (voice not clear) - because they want money - that's why I said if you want only money, then sell your country
Q. What do you think about Mr. Modi's Swachh Bharat Campaign?
A. I am not saying anything because.....
Q. No, do you think it's a good campaign?
A. No, no - Swachh Bharat kya hai - pahle aap to mere ko samjhao - Swachh Bharat kya hai - is it the Nirmal Gram programmes, earlier programmes? -
Q. He wants to focus on sanitation - he says..... (voice not clear)