ET BureauNCP chief Sharad Pawar and MNS president Raj Thackeray in separate, exclusive, interviews with Rajesh Ramachandran and Krishna Kumar speak about the alleged conspiracy behind the BJP-Shiv Sena breakup. While Pawar rules out any truck with Congress, Raj insists that NCP and BJP will soon be together (Read interview). Excerpts of interview with Sharad Pawar:
In your last interview to ET in April, you had predicted that Rajnath Singh would be the PM and had said there was no Modi wave. Do you still maintain that there is no Modi wave?
I don’t know. I cannot say whether there is a Modi wave or not. There is a vast difference between this time and last time. Public meetings of the Prime Minister are very well organized by his party. But the kind of response that we had seen previously — the conversation between the masses and the leader — I don’t see that now, except in one or two places. For the first time in Maharashtra, everybody is contesting separately, BJP, Shiv Sena, Congress and NCP. This is an opportunity for every party to asses its strength and stature in every corner of the state.
So, you don’t find a Modi wave on the ground right now?
I can’t say that. The performance of the Modi government in the last few days and the commitments they made and actually what has happened in the country, I don’t think they (BJP) will get the same response. In UP, in the Lok Sabha polls, almost all the seats had gone to BJP. But in the Vidhan Sabha by-polls BJP lost eight out of nine seats. That means people are definitely changing their thinking. They are going away from BJP.
Did people vote for Modi only to drive out Congress-led UPA in the LS polls?
This was the first election where both the fronts, NDA and UPA, projected — UPA may not have done it officially — their PM candidates, Narendra Modi and Rahul Gandhi. These two leaders faced the nation and ultimately the people took a decision based on what the leaders were saying. People preferred Modi.
Do you think that Rahul Gandhi was not an ideal choice for PM candidate?
How can I say that? It is the misfortunate decision of another party. They can select anybody. It is their decision.
Is there an anti-incumbency factor working against NCP in assembly polls over irrigation scam and other allegations of corruption?
They have been continuously attacking us. What is there in irrigation? They said there is not a single acreage added. Globally, the highest number of irrigation projects are in India and within the country, the highest number is in Maharashtra. A number of irrigation projects have been completed in the last 15 years since this government came to power. There was a Supreme Court decision on water dispute between Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh and Karanataka that whatever water cannot be stored by a state will be distributed to the other states. So, a conscious decision was taken by the government 25 years ago to construct dams first to store the water and to forget about the canals.
So, priority was given for the construction of dams. Now, the process of acquisition of land for canals has started. These projects were delayed for 25-30 years, so the cost of land has escalated. I can give you the example of the Sardar Sarovar project in Gujarat that has been going on for 35 years. Then the cost was estimated at Rs 6,000 crore, today it is Rs 36,000 crore. Should I say it is a scam? I will not say that because I know the cost has gone up.
The Opposition also knows it, but deliberately they are making allegations to create confusion. We have been ruling for 15 years and in every election, people do think about change. So, it is good that NCP, Congress, Shiv Sena and BJP are contesting separately. People will realize who has done good work in their respective constituencies and will take a view.
So this election is a contest at the constituency level?
That’s right.
Why do Ajit Pawar and Prithviraj Chavan attack each other viciously?
Pawar was leading my party and its ministers in the cabinet. The NCP ministers were very unhappy with Chavan. In fact, we have worked with Vilasrao Deshmukh, Sushil Shinde and Ashok Chavan, and there were no problems. In eleven out of 15 years, my ministers worked with Congress chief ministers and there was no dispute. Unfortunately, this time we have seen the decisionmaking process was slow. I will give you the example of the (Worli-Bandra) Sea Link. This was completed about 7-8 years ago. That department is with my party. My minister (Jaydutt) Kshirsagar kept on insisting with the CM and the cabinet that only half the work was done and that we have to go up to Nariman Point. But no decision was taken. So, unhappiness was there because of the delay in the decision-making process.
But Chavan had hinted that he was holding up only “personal files”?
Sea Link is not a personal file. We were only insisting on public projects. There is no question about personal files.
Chavan is considered to be an able administrator and a clean politician. How do you rate him as chief minister?
I don’t want to make a personal comment. About two years ago, I did criticize him, saying that the delay in decision-making is not correct.
Will you join hands with Congress again in case of a hung assembly?
Enough is enough. There is no question of joining with Congress again. My target is to get a clear majority for my party. Why should I reply to hypothetical questions about Congress or BJP. I am going into the battle ground.
There are lots of reports about a tussle between Ajit Pawar and you…
Absolutely not true. In NCP, responsibility is distributed between leaders like Ajit Pawar, Chagan Bhujbal, Sunil Tatkare, RR Patil, Jayant Patil and others. All of them have been authorized to take decisions. I believe in decentralized democracy.
Is Ajit Pawar your chief ministerial candidate?
The chief minister will be decided by elected MLAs, that is the practice every time, whether it is Bhujbal, RR Patil, Vijaysinh Mohite-Patil or Ajit Pawar. Every time, there was an election and MLAs elected their leaders.
There is a big talk that you are the reason for the break up between BJP and Shiv Sena. Finally, will you tie up with BJP after the polls?
It is good. BJP is a national party which runs the central government and if I can take a decision on the future of all these parties, I must be a capable person. I am grateful that everybody is accepting my capability.
In your last interview to ET in April, you had predicted that Rajnath Singh would be the PM and had said there was no Modi wave. Do you still maintain that there is no Modi wave?
I don’t know. I cannot say whether there is a Modi wave or not. There is a vast difference between this time and last time. Public meetings of the Prime Minister are very well organized by his party. But the kind of response that we had seen previously — the conversation between the masses and the leader — I don’t see that now, except in one or two places. For the first time in Maharashtra, everybody is contesting separately, BJP, Shiv Sena, Congress and NCP. This is an opportunity for every party to asses its strength and stature in every corner of the state.
So, you don’t find a Modi wave on the ground right now?
I can’t say that. The performance of the Modi government in the last few days and the commitments they made and actually what has happened in the country, I don’t think they (BJP) will get the same response. In UP, in the Lok Sabha polls, almost all the seats had gone to BJP. But in the Vidhan Sabha by-polls BJP lost eight out of nine seats. That means people are definitely changing their thinking. They are going away from BJP.
Did people vote for Modi only to drive out Congress-led UPA in the LS polls?
This was the first election where both the fronts, NDA and UPA, projected — UPA may not have done it officially — their PM candidates, Narendra Modi and Rahul Gandhi. These two leaders faced the nation and ultimately the people took a decision based on what the leaders were saying. People preferred Modi.
Do you think that Rahul Gandhi was not an ideal choice for PM candidate?
How can I say that? It is the misfortunate decision of another party. They can select anybody. It is their decision.
Is there an anti-incumbency factor working against NCP in assembly polls over irrigation scam and other allegations of corruption?
They have been continuously attacking us. What is there in irrigation? They said there is not a single acreage added. Globally, the highest number of irrigation projects are in India and within the country, the highest number is in Maharashtra. A number of irrigation projects have been completed in the last 15 years since this government came to power. There was a Supreme Court decision on water dispute between Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh and Karanataka that whatever water cannot be stored by a state will be distributed to the other states. So, a conscious decision was taken by the government 25 years ago to construct dams first to store the water and to forget about the canals.
So, priority was given for the construction of dams. Now, the process of acquisition of land for canals has started. These projects were delayed for 25-30 years, so the cost of land has escalated. I can give you the example of the Sardar Sarovar project in Gujarat that has been going on for 35 years. Then the cost was estimated at Rs 6,000 crore, today it is Rs 36,000 crore. Should I say it is a scam? I will not say that because I know the cost has gone up.
The Opposition also knows it, but deliberately they are making allegations to create confusion. We have been ruling for 15 years and in every election, people do think about change. So, it is good that NCP, Congress, Shiv Sena and BJP are contesting separately. People will realize who has done good work in their respective constituencies and will take a view.
So this election is a contest at the constituency level?
That’s right.
Why do Ajit Pawar and Prithviraj Chavan attack each other viciously?
Pawar was leading my party and its ministers in the cabinet. The NCP ministers were very unhappy with Chavan. In fact, we have worked with Vilasrao Deshmukh, Sushil Shinde and Ashok Chavan, and there were no problems. In eleven out of 15 years, my ministers worked with Congress chief ministers and there was no dispute. Unfortunately, this time we have seen the decisionmaking process was slow. I will give you the example of the (Worli-Bandra) Sea Link. This was completed about 7-8 years ago. That department is with my party. My minister (Jaydutt) Kshirsagar kept on insisting with the CM and the cabinet that only half the work was done and that we have to go up to Nariman Point. But no decision was taken. So, unhappiness was there because of the delay in the decision-making process.
But Chavan had hinted that he was holding up only “personal files”?
Sea Link is not a personal file. We were only insisting on public projects. There is no question about personal files.
Chavan is considered to be an able administrator and a clean politician. How do you rate him as chief minister?
I don’t want to make a personal comment. About two years ago, I did criticize him, saying that the delay in decision-making is not correct.
Will you join hands with Congress again in case of a hung assembly?
Enough is enough. There is no question of joining with Congress again. My target is to get a clear majority for my party. Why should I reply to hypothetical questions about Congress or BJP. I am going into the battle ground.
There are lots of reports about a tussle between Ajit Pawar and you…
Absolutely not true. In NCP, responsibility is distributed between leaders like Ajit Pawar, Chagan Bhujbal, Sunil Tatkare, RR Patil, Jayant Patil and others. All of them have been authorized to take decisions. I believe in decentralized democracy.
Is Ajit Pawar your chief ministerial candidate?
The chief minister will be decided by elected MLAs, that is the practice every time, whether it is Bhujbal, RR Patil, Vijaysinh Mohite-Patil or Ajit Pawar. Every time, there was an election and MLAs elected their leaders.
There is a big talk that you are the reason for the break up between BJP and Shiv Sena. Finally, will you tie up with BJP after the polls?
It is good. BJP is a national party which runs the central government and if I can take a decision on the future of all these parties, I must be a capable person. I am grateful that everybody is accepting my capability.
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