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Most people remember Rajat Kapoor as the lovable Mahesh Uncle who unites Aamir Khan and Preity Zinta in Farhan Akhtar's Dil Chahta Hai. But while Rajat Kapoor, the actor has done his share of big blockbusters, the filmmaker in him stays away from the mainstream. Indiatimes.com spoke to Rajat Kapoor about his first ensemble film Ankhon Dekhi and what he feels about his filmmaking innings so far.

You are returning with a film after bit of a break…

Not really, it’s not been much of a break. I also directed a film called Fatso, which took a long time to release. As a result not many people saw it. So the general impression is that this film is coming after Mithya.

I look back and see that I have directed five films in a decade. That’s not bad. I don’t think I can ask for more. Five films in ten years, is my dream scenario. And if you ask what do I want from the next ten years, I would say: Direct five films, three plays and do three films as an actor.

So were you involved with theater all this while?

Yes. We did Hamlet; Nothing Like Lear and C For Clown. It’s been a dream decade. Of course there have been ups and downs. Some films work, and some don’t do well; and it comes as a shock. Not because they failed at the box office (that’s a part of the reason), but because you failed in executing your imagination. For me success and failure is not box office. The true measure of success is how close you have come to making what you had imagined. In that sense I would say Mithya and Ankhon Dekhi have been the most successful. These two films are the ones, I am pleased with the most. The written material has translated well on screen. In Fatso the first half was fabulous but the second half did not come together.

Have there been any lessons from the films you have made so far?

I have learnt that this will keep happening. Take for example Woody Allen. He has made around 40 films and is pretty much doing the same thing and following the same format. But one of them will be phenomenal (Midnight In Paris is fabulous) and the other one will be just fine (You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger). What happened? Woody Allen has not changed he is the same. But I have realized that while sometimes things will fall into place and come together, there are also things, which wont. But as a creative person you have to take that risk and challenge yourself every time and go down that path. Because when you start a film you just have a vague idea based on the script. Now I have accepted the fact that two times out of five, things may not work as well as you had imagined them.

Do external factors like a bad release date play a role in things not going right?

I am not talking about external factors at all. Those things are outside my mindset as I try to exclude those factors from my work. I do not work with a studio so I am fortunate to have creative freedom. Nobody has ever asked me to change this or that. I have fought to keep things that way for myself. I am talking about a creative process, which may or may not work. Happily it has worked more often in my case. But who knows, after ten years things may change and you may lose your abilities. It happens to all artistes. Look at Scorsese. He made Aviator and Wolf Of Wall Street but also a dud like Shutter Island. It was the same team, but the film did not work. 

But there was a period when you were all over the place from ads to films, and one regularly saw your face on screen. Why the decision to slow down?

I have refused a lot of cameos. Three to four films I did went unregistered. 10ml Love, I Am 24, Pappu Cant Dance Saala were all great roles, but did not register. Raat Gayi Baat Gayi did a little bit. Then there was Deepa Mehta’s Midnights Children, which took a while to make. Who knows, if Midnights Children had become another Monsoon Wedding, one would be all over the place. So there has been work, but in unsuccessful films!

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This film has a fresh set of actors and the not the names you usually work with. Is it because you were becoming a bit rusty working with the same set of friends?

It’s a misinformed allegation I have faced often. Raghu Romeo had Maira Goretti, Mixed Doubles had Konkona Sen Sharma and Koel Purie and in Mithya there was Neha Dhupia. In Fatso there was Gul Panag and Gunjan. In this there is Seeman Pahwa and Maya Saro.

No repeats.

Now, what has happened is that Saurabh Shukla did three films with Neha, Vinay and me. Vinay produced Dasvidaniya, with Neha, Vinay and me. It is not my fault sir. The only person I am guilty of repeating is Ranveer Shorey. But I have worked with a whole lot of other actors such as Purab Kohli and Vijay Raaz. The impression however is that I work only with one set of people. But that is not true. I am looking out for new actors all the time.

This is an ensemble piece, unlike my previous films. Ankhon Dekhi is about a joint family. I did not know Sanjay Mishra before Phas Gaye Re Obama. But while working with him I became a fan. While writing Ankhon Dekhi the image of Sanjay Mishra kept flashing in my mind, so I told him that whenever I would make this film it would be with him. I discovered all the other actors during auditions and there is some amazing talent in the film. Great actors. Seema Pahwa has been around forever, and she has done a lot of television and theater, but hasn’t got a role so powerful yet. We of course auditioned her and knew that she had to play 'Amma'. Maya Sarao I don’t know where she came from! She has done drama in London and I was like ‘WOW Where Were You All This While?’ Namit I have worked with in Hamlet. And there are my favorites Manu Rishi and Bijendra Kala, who I admire a lot.

The triumph of this film is that every frame is packed with ten people and they are all alive, performing and involved in the film. Everybody is talking almost at the same time, and I think we have pulled that part well.

And will you also have a Hitchcockian cameo as we know that you do not like play the lead role in films you direct?

It’s not Hitchcockian, I am playing a big role (laughs). I play Sanjay’s younger brother in the family.

Raghu Romeo, Mixed Doubles, Mithya, Fatso and now this film – They all deal with plots about ‘things not being what they seem to be’. Is that a plot point close to your heart?

That’s interesting. I actually didn’t make that connection. I think at some level the underlying thread in all these films is identity. These are films about identity. It’s more about ‘Who Are You As A Person?’ rather than perception. The other thematic continuity is of a man obsessed. Here in Ankhon Dekhi the obsession is with the idea of believing only what one sees, and the character eventually gets so obsessed that he goes very far.

Are you also like that in real life?

Ha Ha, you mean obsessive or a person who believes only what he sees?

I try to be. I will give you an example of what formed the genesis of this film. There was this actor everyone had warned me about. I was told not to work with him. But when I met him I found him to be great. We all face this dilemma as our view is colored with perception. Now if someone tells me you are not a nice person, the moment you enter my house, I will somewhere have formed a negative perception about you. Before you say anything I have decided my view about you.

So I try to be as open as possible to people, things, events and experiences. That is a quality we all have to learn. But I don’t go to the extremes of this character in the film, because if I did, I would leave all and head to the Himalayas to experience that peace and joy.

I was reading something by Osho. That if there is a rose, and even if there has never been a rose like this ever before and there will never be one ever again; your mind is already closed as you feel you have seen a rose before. And as a result you will deprive yourself of a new experience. So I think we all need to see more, hear more and stop being prisoners of our fixed thoughts and ideas in the head.

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You crowd funded Raghu Romeo using the Internet way before the online world had become so ubiquitous. But even today when you can get any studio on board given your credentials, why do you stick with independent producers?

That’s not true. I can’t get any studio on board. I have tried. In fact it has become more difficult as you are competing with giants. Problem is studios are interested in what you did three years back. If I go with Ankhon Dekhi they ask me to do another Mithya. But I am not interested in repeating myself. I have done my rounds, nothing has changed, and it’s still mainly about the stars. It may change in the future. There are some examples such as UTV releasing Shahid and The Lunchbox, but the making is still largely left to us. They come in at a later stage if there is some revenue potential, due to a film’s popularity in the festival circuit.

Do you consciously stay away from directing a big film as you feel you have duty towards the growth on unconventional cinema?

Nobody does anything out of duty. You do something only out of a belief system. The commercial format does not excite me. I do not watch these films or have a desire to make them. I detest them and can’t even stand five minutes of them. To make a film you need to invest two years of your life. Why would I spend so much time of my life on something I hate? I would die in two days.

Is Ankhon Dekhi also laced with humour and irony like your previous films?

Its funny, it also has pathos, is part philosophical and at the same time a joint family story; but it is difficult to slot. But yes it has its humorous moments.

It is interesting that Ankhon Dekhi releases at a time when the AAP is urging citizens to questions the old political order. Did this movement influence your story?

I wrote this film four years back and shot it two years back, so it was way before this movement happened. But these things are born from the world around. So maybe there was a seed somewhere when I was writing. It’s funny because from the time you write a film to when it gets released you don’t know what connects with people or which emotion resonates. I think Bheja Fry worked because the emotion of Bharat Bhushan’s simplicity and innocence connected with the people.

Or similarly Amitabh Bachchan’s angry young man and Shah Rukh Khan’s romance connected with people at that moment. But then on the flipside, three years back Salman Khan’s dabangg role made a connection; but today the same style did not work in his recent film. So the world changes, society changes and that is what makes this an unpredictable business. 

You have to write keeping in mind questions in the current moment but by the time your film is out, society might have changed. People say there is a formula but there is none…It’s beyond formula - It is something intangible. But the Babu Ji and Kejriwal connect could make for a great marketing idea.

Once upon a time you were the poster boy of supporting non-mainstream cinema, but now that crown has passed onto Anurag Kashyap and Vikramaditya Motwane. Are you envious?

Not at all!

Anurag Kashyap is a dear friend and a filmmaker I truly admire. Dev D and Gangs of Wasseypur are the only two brilliant films of the last decade. Everything else is mediocre, mediocre and mediocre.